Telco separation: more than meets the eye

Regulatory submissions to the federal government's AU$4.7 billion national broadband network mostly only paid lip service to the complications and risks of separation in the telecommunications industry, analyst firm Ovum said today.

The government last week published more than 80 of the submissions from telcos, other corporates, state governments and other industry groups and individuals, with most calling for structural separation of whatever group won the rights to build the network, although Telstra was a notable dissenter from the idea.

"Separation is being bandied around quite a bit at the moment, but people are being very, very vague about what that would entail," said Ovum research director David Kennedy. "None of them really say that the hard thinking's been done."

Any form of separation, be it structural — which has separate companies set up to administer the network — or operational — where the different divisions of a telco are isolated from one another — would be painful for Telstra, which Kennedy believes has the highest odds of winning the bid.

Although Telstra is already operationally separated into retail, wholesale and other divisions, it's nowhere near as strict as the separation being currently imposed on Telecom New Zealand, which has had to increase its staff numbers significantly so it could have separate management for each of its sections, Kennedy said.

Getting the details right for the New Zealand telco's split took the island nation 15 months and three rounds of negotiations, the last of which was "micro-managing down to the level of setting executive payment", Kennedy said.

In this work, the problems which separation is supposed to fix needs to be set out in detail, as well as how exactly it would remedy them, according to Kennedy.

With the Australian government wanting to have the tender process wrapped up towards the end of this year, it has significantly less time than New Zealand did. In fact, if the process was to be done properly, the building of Australia's broadband network will most likely have to be set back, according to Kennedy.

"When you're gambling at this level you want to make sure you've got the settings correct," he said.

The separated party would likely agree, as its stakes in the game would be high.

When the New Zealand government announced its reforms, including the operational separation of Telecom New Zealand, the company's share price dropped around 30 per cent.

"You tend to see the losses up front. The market's immediately factored in the impact this is going to have," Kennedy said.

"If 30 per cent of Telstra's capitalisation was wiped off, it would affect their ability to raise capital," he said, with the telco's debt equity ratio shifting, possibly changing its debt ranking. This could lead to less investment in innovation.

"It's not really the government's job to protect the incumbent," Kennedy said, but stressed that "those sorts of impacts need to be looked at". The federal government's Future Fund still held a significant amount of Telstra stock.

Exactly how severe Australia's competition problem was also needed to be put under the microscope, according to Kennedy: "By the standards of our region and globally, Telstra doesn't stand out as having large market share. It doesn't stand out as a villain."

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Talkback 55 comments

  1. Thank you Mr. Kennedy SJT -- 07/07/08

    Thank you Mr. Kennedy.

    Yet another expert in his field telling it as it is: "By the standards of our region and globally, Telstra doesn't stand out as having large market share. It doesn't stand out as a villain."

    Tell that to all the antagonists and irrational Telstra bashers, who will now claim you are on Telstra's payroll - lol!

    1. Thank you Mr. Kennedy - NOT Anonymous -- 07/07/08

      To SJT,
      "Tell that to all the antagonists and irrational Telstra bashers, who will now claim you are on Telstra's payroll - lol!"

      Perhaps you should have a look here;
      http://www.ovum.com/about/clients/#1

      Shock horror Telstra is an Ovum client, so yes you can expect their comments to be biased to reflect their clients views.

      Mr. Kennedy's comments are based on self interest not whats right for Australia.

    2. Nice pick up James Bell -- 07/07/08

      Good pick up anonymous. It's certainly something SJT would not like to acknowledge however. This is despite the fact he's very quick to question the motifs of virtually every other company, government body/organisation, group or consortium which also provided submissions via this same process.

    3. Great pick up Not blinded by greed or hatred (unlike James) -- 08/07/08

      Telstra is one client, there are at least another 12 telco's on the list, all are competitors to Telstra in one way or another.

      As a global consulting orginisation what would you do?
      (a) Publish a flawed report that would ruin your credibility just to impress one client while ruining your relationship with dozens of other clients.
      or
      (b) publish a technically accurate report regardless of who you may upset knowing your reputation remains intact.

    4. SJT or Sydney this time? Sean -- 08/07/08

      I looked at the list. Not one is a landline competitor in Australia? Seems that there are 2 mobile competitors, but none relying on the PSTN. So I'm guessing that Ovum is reporting what would be in the best interest of it's customer, and the customers shareholders, NOT what's in the best interest of it's monopolised customers.

    5. re: SJT or Sydney this time? I am not SJT or Sydney ! -- 08/07/08

      In the global economy almost every telco is a competitor via direct or indirect competition. Telstra owns 50% of Reach which competes on the global stage. The question is about credibility... Ovum has plenty, you have none.

      Your knee jerk reaction is to make a stupid comment and a heading that shows you want people to believe any comment you do not support comes from specific individuals. My entire post was not bias in any way, it asked a simple and logical question. You simply have a "I don't like this so I will attack regardless of accuracy" attitude.

    6. Unbiased - lol! SJT -- 08/07/08

      This is coming from one who claims Optus' second largest shareholder (with some 50m shares) as an unbiased referee for structural separation. But hassles a 70 odd year old retiree, who once had a few Telstra shares - whaddaguy!

      As I said, yet another independent expert to add to the libel list - Morgan. Lynch and now Kennedy!

  2. Low standards for Telcos Anonymous -- 07/07/08

    Just because the US telcos stink to high heaven, doesn't mean Telstra is off the hook.
    I can't think of a single telco that acts friendly or tries hard to satisfy customers or prevent them from excessive charges.
    All the mobile telcos do it.

  3. Still needs to be axed S. Richmond -- 07/07/08

    Sure there are risks, but i still believe structural seperation is a must in our situation. If it takes another 15 months to get it right i'm all for it.

    1. "Buy it Back" Anonymous -- 08/07/08

      Should NEVER have been sold off. The only one who has benefited since deregulation is SINGTEL/OPTUS.

      The Australian public have been screwed. Kevin Rudd should show some balls & buy it back for the good of all Australians!!

    2. Competition lives. Sydney Lawrence -- 08/07/08

      The bleating of those who cry for competition should be granted it and the ACCC given a situation that shuts them up once and for all.

      Telstra should immediately withdraw from the NBN tender process. Inform the Government that in the interest of true competition they will await the arrival of whatever system the opposition delivers and (with the monopoly argument put to bed once and for all) will then provide strong competition for their opponents.

      The winner will be decided by the Australian people and the winner will be the Australian people.

    3. Good luck Kevin -- 08/07/08

      @Sydney - If Telstra pulls out of the NBN process then you are very much right - the winner will be the Australian people.

      That said, the winners will not be Telstra shareholders. If Telstra do not win the NBN (and for the sake of this country I hope they do not win it) then Telstra's days become numbered.

      With the number of fixed line accounts decreasing, Telstra has had to rely on internet services to stay alive. Without the internet, Telstra won't survive.

      The precious and overpriced Next G isn't enough to keep them alive.

    4. Telstra could build on their own and win Anonymous -- 08/07/08

      If Telstra pulled out today and started building their own network I am certain they could deliver a network to 95% of the population for the same cost (without government funding) and much quicker then their competitor. Telstra may miss out on coverage to 3% of the population but they would be up and running much quicker. They would not only survive they would thrive.

    5. You think? nhac -- 08/07/08

      I deal with Telstra wholesale almost every working day. I've never seen them do -anything- quickly. Ever.

    6. re. you think Anonymous -- 08/07/08

      What do you expect them to jump for the leeches?

    7. jump for the leeches? nhac -- 14/07/08

      I'm not even sure what that means. I'm paying them to do things and I want it done to spec. It shouldn't be that hard.

    8. Do they do things within an SLA? igor -- 08/07/08

      It is easy to say they never do anything quickly but the term quickly is based on perception and not on any facts. To me quickly may be 5 seconds, to you it may be 5 hours so how do we measure it?

      They would have a delivery agreement with your company, the question is do they deliver within an agreed service level agreement?

      Look at the construction of the Next G network, they built it from scratch in 10 months and had much greater coverage then all other competitors combined. Optus has announced they would increase their existing network coverage to be about 80% of the land mass of Telstra's network and since the initial announcement over 12 months has passed and they still expect to take 18 more months. Based on a direct comparison I think they are pretty quick.

    9. Telstra didn't build NextG Anonymous -- 08/07/08

      Ericsson did, and this talk of it being built in 10 months is understandable considering a large amount of the backbone infrastructure was already in place.

      Just like NextG whoever wins the NBN tender won't actually be building it themselves. Instead it'll be contracted out, so the comments some like to make about individual corporations being more "capable" of building it is a farce.

    10. Using the same logic I will not show my name until you force registration -- 08/07/08

      Optus & Vodaphone did not build their mobile networks.

      What a load of garbage, a company chooses the engineers to design, builder to construct and drives the objectives that they follow.

      Telstra chose Ericsson to design the network, several construction companies to do the physical work and funded a number of research groups to ensure they used not only the most modern technology but also push this technology to it's limits.

      The only reason Next G is so widespread and is a world leader is the fact that Telstra paid for much of the technology in use via R&D.

      Optus would never have spent any money in R&D. They simply wait for someone else to pay for the technology and take the risks before they build (or resell) the infrastructure.

    11. agreed timeframes nhac -- 14/07/08

      Actually, no it is based on facts. I am talking about busting agreed resolution times, I am talking about failure to return emails / phone calls. I'm talking about resolution times for faults being measured in weeks, not hours. I'm talking about techs turning up to investigate a fault on an SHSDL service only to listen for dialtone, find none and then go home and report the fault closed, then not have anyone contact me to say that it was closed. I'm talking about getting elbow-deep in the MDFs of buildings because where the service I just bought was ordered was actually someone's apartment and not even on the right frame. And if I have just one more IPWAN site fall off the face of the planet because someone messed up making changes to a routing protocol I'm just going to snap.

      All that said, I love the NextG network. IMO it is the best product that Telstra has and realistically has no competition in the marketplace for my application.

    12. What if.. Anonymous -- 08/07/08

      Why don't they just do it then? What are they waiting for? If they had built FTTN by themselves over the past decade, then they would be near completion and could run in competition to the pstn without ULL restrictions. Go figure..

    13. What if... Anonymous -- 08/07/08

      Come to think about it, I am certain that it would have been in Optus' interest to have done this as a way of taking business away from Telstra. Oh that's right, Optus won't spend a dollar unless someone else gives them two dollars and guarantees they will make another ten on top.

    14. what if was Anonymous -- 08/07/08

      telstra were going to build fttn about 3 years ago, but the accc wouldn't let them charge what they wanted to.

      argue either way, greedy telstra or stifling accc, but telstra did offer!

    15. It's called contingency my friend. SJT -- 08/07/08

      Your very own beloved SingTel have proven this is a big world with lots of opportunities.

      Surely you're not naive enough to believe Telstra don't have many contingencies both here and abroad (if us Aussies are too dumb to take their money) in the event they either don't win or decide to walk away from the NBN, do you?

      In fact it would certainly put the cat amongst the pigeons if they walked and then I guess we would see who was right about TERRiA, wouldn't we!

    16. SYDNEY - WHERE'S JAMES? SJT -- 10/07/08

      Sydney if you bump into the paid antagonist, please pass on this info. He probably already knows or was involved in the arrangements.

      http://www.aicc.org.au/event_detail.cfm?id=15

      It's a dream come true for him, his perfect company and the messiah for one command peformance only. A little shindig he won't want to miss. He could probably pop round and pick up the "mangy lapdog" on his way too - lol.

      To whet your appetite here's the headline: -

      The chamber and OPTUS are delighted to invite you and your guests to a lunch with Graeme Samuel, Chairman ACCC.

      Did I hear someone accuse Mr. Morgan of being on Telstra's payroll - ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  4. What *exactly* is he trying to say Anonymous -- 08/07/08

    "By the standards of our region and globally, Telstra doesn't stand out as having large market share. It doesn't stand out as a villain."

    Is he denying that Telstra have *monopoly control* of the last-mile copper network?

    The *same* last-mile copper network which is *fundamentally critical* to the rollout of the NBN?

    Is he in some way denying that *anyone* who has monopoly control of a critical resource will have *both* motive and opportunity to use that *unfair advantage* to destroy fair and reasonable competition in the market?

    Is he in any way claiming that Telstra has not , in the past, done its best to (putting it nicely) leverage any and every advantage in the marketplace?

    Now I'm not denying that doing so is only "being an aggressive business" and generally "fulfilling your stockholder expectations". However those two behaviours are NOT necessarily GOOD FOR AUSTRALI, irrespective of how good they may be for Telstra.

    This is THE AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT we're talking about here, they *must* look out for the best interests OF AUSTRALIA (and Long Term Interests, not just short term), not some company.

    1. Qantas/Telstra Australian icons. Protect both. Sydney Lawrence -- 08/07/08

      Also I believe they are duty bound to promote the interests of Australian companies (Telstra) and it is not in the interests of Telstra's 40,000 Australian employees for our Government to donate 4.7 billion to a foreign company (Optus) to gain control of Australia's vital communication network.

    2. Protect consumers first Anonymous -- 08/07/08

      The Government needs to put Australian consumers before the interests of a private telecommunications monopoly and its shareholders.

    3. So no FTTx? Anonymous -- 08/07/08

      So you want no FTTx then?

      Telstra is a listed company as are many members of terria!

    4. Aussies first. Sydney Lawrence -- 08/07/08

      Australian consumers will be best served by Telstra being granted the NBN build.

    5. Aussies first Sean -- 09/07/08

      Sydney, this is the stumbling block. How?

      Telstra have admitted that they want a ROI that exceeds what any part of their business is getting at the moment. Does this mean cheaper prices? I think not as Telstra will have to leverage greater consumer payments to meet the ROI target. How is to the benefit of the Australian public? Even the small shareholders will lose out as any gains in share price (I'd say at most a $2 rise) and dividend would be quickly eaten away by greater telephony charges. Where's the benefit to Australia then?

      And in reply to the above, because I question Ovum's motive in supporting it's only Australian landline infrastructure owning customer, I'm somehow worthless? Look again at the list, is Nortel or Telecom Italia likely to try and compete in the Australian marketplace? Remember this is purely about the Australian market. Get real with such drivel. Ovum was supporting a customer at the behest of the customer. If Terria (or any of it component companies) were a customer I certainly would have given more credence to their report. Just as I believe that Ovum would have found suitable arguments supporting separation, if Terria was a customer and Telstra not, and I would've given the same level of credence to that one as this report-very little.

    6. All talk no substance Brian Wall -- 09/07/08

      Ovum is a global company and their reputation is also based on their global performance. If they produced a flawed report regardless of location they will damage their reputation. The fact the have many clients in the same industry shows how respected they are. Telstra delivers services to almost every country in the world and most major companies deliver services to Australia, therefore they are competitors.

      As to a profit margin, let's assume Telstra wants 18%, at this stage we do not know what Terria will be targeting, let's assume they want 15%.

      If the cost basis of the FTTN component of the end to end service is $30 the retail price would be $1.29 more using that profit level. The overall cost of the retail product to the client includes the FTTN delivery, the local loop and the content carried over this. The FTTN component will account for less then half of the retail cost.

      When people talk about huge pricing difference the actual wholesale difference would be about 3c per day. Let's put everything into a measured perspective instead of a whole lot of emotional garbage.

    7. Re: all talk SJT -- 09/07/08

      Brian Wall, nice work I concur fully - kudos.

      To then go one step further, TERRiA (unlike Telstra) have not given assurances that their prices won't unduly increase either!

      Age 10/6, "Telstra's broadband prices could only rise if inflation was above the Reserve Bank's target peak of 3%. In short, IF TELSTRA BUILT THE NETWORK AND DID NOT GET AS MANY CUSTOMERS AS IT FORECAST, THE COST WOULD BE BORNE BY THE COMPANY AND ITS SHAREHOLDERS. But if demand on a Terria-owned network was below estimates - and therefore not enough revenue firstly to cover costs and the return on investment -

      (TERRiA's) PRICES WOULD RISE IN THE NEXT FOUR YEARS TO MAKE UP THE SHORTFALL"...

      Tim Smeallie of Citi - Telecoms research, suggests Telstra will be more expensive "upfront" but also "caveat-light"...

      In other words, Telstra are actually telling us upfront, how much it will cost us, whereas TERRiA are only telling us how much they will charge initially (less than Telstra of course - you know, dangle the carrot to get the foot in the door) but after that, all bets are off!

      So that puts even more pressure on that might 3c - lol!

    8. Rate of return comparisons James Bell -- 09/07/08

      To determine the cost differences between an 18% vs. 15% ROI on a multi-billion dollar network is not as simple as assuming a 3% difference in wholesale/retail pricing. The Centre of International Economics (another consulting firm) released a report last month on the cost to consumers in order for Telstra to achieve its 18% ROI. The report states that if Telstra were to build the NBN that customers would pay an average rate 15% higher than that of competing bids, which many are translating to $100+ access for basic broadband services. The report also went on further to discuss other issues this would bring such as the slowing down the economy, reducing GDP, disposable income etc.

      SJT will of course argue that the CIE were commissioned by the T4 to create this report, but to say this directly contradicts your argument that these companies would not produce a flawed report at risk of damaging their reputation. This very article has stemmed from a submission which Ovum made relating to regulatory issues associated with the NBN, and Ovum clearly didn't just go to the trouble of submitting it because they had nothing better to do with their time. Ironically it's one of the only submissions out of more 80 published which actually dismisses any form of separation for the successful NBN bidder.

    9. No one is safe from the anti-Telstra crusader "Super James" - lol! SJT -- 09/07/08

      It's unfortunate that rational humans can't have a meaninful debate without being distracted by hate filled, paid antagonists such as yourself James.

      No, unlike you, I will not bluntly discredit this report, even though commissioned by T4. I have previously discredited reports, strictly as a result of you doing so first. After all, if you wish to set the ground rules as to who is and who isn't biased, you can't then expect them not to apply to you too!

      Personally though, I'd believe those you bluntly disregard, "independent telecoms analysts" like Mr. Lynch, Mr. Morgan, Mr. Kennedy and even one you don't disregard, Mr. Budde (I say even Mr. Budde simply because his views are opposite to these other 3 experts and also opposite to my own), before these types of commissioned reports.

      But regardless, I believe Mr. Budde, like the other experts named, has more credibility than any of Telstra's direct or indirect competitors, who have disgracefully submitted proposals demanding separation of their rival, simply for their own selfish agendas!

      Laughably James, whilst rejecting out of hand as biased and even libelling the "independent experts" (but only the 3 anti- separation experts, of course -lol!!!), you readily accept as completely unbiased, the submission from one of Optus' major shareholders and readily accept submissions from Telstra's rivals, which are much more likely to display bias!

      These are the submissions you desperately, continually refer and cling to, to keep the comments flowing! And why? Most importantly for you, "to keep those cheques rolling in"!

      Also, who am I to (and I will not) libel those who have written what I do not agree with? Nor am I so blinded by hatred or by cash for comments (as i do not get paid, unlike some) that i will not take onboard what they are saying!

      You say, it's one of the only submission out of 80 or more, which dismisses any form of separation? Oh please check again!

      Ooh and also, don't foget to reapply "YOU'RE" groundrules as to who is and who isn't biased, before championing submissions from Telstra competitors!

    10. SJT - The Inexplicable James Bell -- 09/07/08

      You have the audacity to accuse me of being a hate-filled, paid antagonist, when it is you who far more often reverts to sarcasm, personal attacks and forlorn measures in order to try and boost your crusade as the self proclaimed "messenger" on behalf of one of the largest (if not the largest) multi-billion dollar corporation in this country. You will stop at nothing to support this company you apparently love, even at the expense of potentially putting the services all Australians receive in jeopardy for the cause.

      I don't work for T4 as you keep referring to, and even if I did then I've done a significantly better job at hiding my loyalties than you. In fact the only thing you could quite easily pick up from my posts is that I'm certainy not a member of the Telstra cheer/groupie squad. I have openly said I do not mind who wins the NBN Tender (even Telstra) provided the right conditions are in place to support competition, and ensure the consumers of Australia are not forced to pay more for services which many are already accessing today. You see SJT unlike you I don't care about shares, profit margins or economies of scale etc. I just care about how much I'm spending and what I'm receiving in return for my money. Competition is not a "buzz" word as you like to put it; it is a reality and one of the most important elements of this entire broadband debate because without it we would all be paying dearly. If you genuinely don't work for Telstra and just venture around forums all day and night to post (significantly more than me I might add) on their behalf about how wonderful they are then you really need to wake up, smell the coffee and get a life SJT.

      Also the only so called professional out of all the ones you've spruiked which I do genuinely believe to be illogically and heavily biased is Mr. Morgan, so please stop attempting to manipulate the facts and stick to the key arguments thanks. And now I see you've added "independent" Mr Kennedy onto your list (of two) when Telstra is one of Ovum's key paying clients. Well done!

    11. ROFL SJT -- 09/07/08

      ROFL!

    12. Show us one positive comment about Telstra Anonymous -- 09/07/08

      Mr Dumb Bell, I have read dozens of your comments and have never seen you even hint at your claim above.

      "I have openly said I do not mind who wins the NBN Tender (even Telstra) provided the right conditions are in place to support competition, and ensure the consumers of Australia are not forced to pay more for services which many are already accessing today"

      Stop pretending that you would support Telstra building the network if all of the regulatory and price conditions were to your liking.

    13. Have an open mind please James Bell -- 10/07/08

      Mr Dumb Bell.. geez that's clever! I bet it took you a while to come up with that.

      While I'm quite obviously not Telstra's #1 fan, for you information I have said I wouldn't mind if Telstra were to win the NBN if the correct conditions were in place, and I've said it on a number of occasions (most recently on ZDNet 29/06 - 'Should FTTN kill the current copper network?'), but I doubt it will ever happen given Telstra's history and ongoing attitude towards competition, our regulatory bodies and consumers.

      This is in stark contrast to many of the closed minded people here who only believe Telstra should build the network, regardless of the cost.

    14. It is so! SJT -- 10/07/08

      I do enjoy having a friendly dig at my old mate James, but I must also be fair.

      As such, I can verify as one who totally disagrees with primarily everything James says, that he has in fact said this.

      I do however think this is just lip service, but as he says, has said it.

      Cheers

    15. open mind Anonymous -- 11/07/08

      i think i know bellys correct conditions
      for every $1 telstra spends they are only allowed to get back 75c
      of that 75c 50c is to be dished up by the accc to his pet leaches
      20c for repairs and employees
      and 5c donated to the tttt to pay for his next chapter of what a d&*^head am i

    16. Aussies first Sean? SJT -- 09/07/08

      Sean, you say you want what's best for Australia (as I'm sure we all do)! But if this is truly so, why do only consider one side of the argument?

      You can't say, I want what is best, but also bluntly discount or attempt to discredit all pro-Telstra data and reports, especially those from experts, can you?

      Unfortunately, as soon as any everyday Joe, says anything which could even be remotely deciphered as being kind to Telstra, there's a small band of crazed, anti-Telstra intelligentsia (some paid) who instead of decently considering what is being said, simply go for the jugular and claim Telstra stooge, fanboi, greedy pig shareholder. Once again I once received this "die Hel$tra scum". Now really!

      Plus in relation to "independent telecoms experts like Ovum, Kevin Morgan, Grahame Lynch" etc, they are cart blanche, labelled as being "on Telstra's payroll"!

      Seems instead of really wanting what is best and educating yourselves via these experts' years of experience and knowledge, you guys actually have the blinkers on and years of Telstra hatred follows in written rhetoric!

      To be fair, I'm certain you guys think the same of me, but in reverse! However, although whilst obviously in Telstra's corner, I can assure you, as a former client of Optus, Ozemail/iiNet, BDigital/Soul, I have tried the competition and I do endeavour to be open-minded.

      I just find these incessant (and imho unfair) attacks on Telstra and those who think kindly of them, somewhat bewildering and therefore reply in kind!

    17. Aussie first Simon -- 11/07/08

      The only issue most people have with the current market is that there is no structural separation between Telstra infrastructure and Telstra retail. Until this happens, there can be no open competition in Australia. This does not make me anti-Telstra in any way but rather anti the current impediments to open competition.

      My belief is that the Govt should use it's remaining shareholding in Telstra to force this separation and then administer the infrastructure as a government body. Privitisation of the national infrastructure has not worked in the past decade. The amount of money wasted on litigation and conflict over the past decade would have been better spent on improving services to customers.

    18. Self Interests!! Anonymous -- 11/07/08

      good to see you support Telstra....yes by supporting Telstra you are indeed putting Australians first for a change!!

      So you guys wanted the privatisation and now people are aware of how you have been milking it you now want the Government to buy it back!! Cmon!!

      What Hypocrosy!!!!!!!!!

      I think you are putting yourself first before the average Australian!!

    19. Aussie first - me too! SJT -- 11/07/08

      Simon, structural separation (ss), does appear to be the new buzzword(s). But as consumer costs are the sticking point, with those who dislike Telstra, then the impacts of ss on consumer costs, surely need to be considered.

      Most experts (those who are independent and not a direct or indirect Telstra competitor, that is) and ironically also SingTel in Singapore, are saying, in a structurally separated model, prices will increase. Firstly due to the cost of increased red tape (which just gets passed onto the wholesaler, then consumer) but more over, because being totally separate you aren't able to rob Peter to pay Paul, as is currently the case. If one area is not performing in structurally separated company (or rather now 2 or 3 totally separate companies) instead of being able to cross-subsidise an underperforming department to cover the shortfall, this simply can't occur! As such, if underperformance was to occur, prices will obviously increase and the consumer will pay more. So double whammy, red tape plus underperformance = more for us to pay!

      Ironically, looking at an article where BT were recently saying how functional separation has worked for them and they disputed Telstra's claims that it hadn't, if you actually read closer you will see that "BT further into the article actually agrees that regardless, structural separation is NOT best for Telstra"!

      THE AUST; 7/8/2008 - "BUT MR LIVINGSTON (CEO OF BT) SAID FULL STRUCTURAL OR LEGAL SEPARATION WAS NOT THE RIGHT ANSWER"... "Complete legal separation can be very difficult to do -- we looked at in the UK and found that it would be very difficult and also it can mean losing the anchor tenant" he said...

    20. Re: Aussie first ~ they only have 16.56% SJT -- 11/07/08

      Ooh BTW Simon - you say the government should use it's remaing shareholding to force separation?

      The government "did" still have a 50.4% stake. But as from the 10/6/2008, following finalisation of last T3 payment, that stake is now only 16.56%.

      So unless the government legislate, or offer incentives to, or make it an NBN requirement (where Telstra have said they'll walk away, if they did anyway) there will be no "structural separation"!

  5. Spirit of Australia. Sydney Lawrence -- 09/07/08

    Sean you must live in Dreamworld. You ask "Does this mean cheaper prices".

    Sean you tell me one product anywhere around the world that consistently gets cheaper. Costs are rising Sean. Your argument is based on a phony premise.

    Concerning Telstra's return on investment do you know that Telstra has to borrow to pay shareholders a reasonable dividend. So much for excessive and rip-off charges.

    It is beyond my belief how any Australian could abandon an Australian company fundamental to the wellbeing of our Nation, and support companies mostly foreign owned.

    1. Prices rising... pfft. Kevin of Perth -- 09/07/08

      What a load of rubbish - internet access prices are not rising, they are falling.

      Whoever builds the NBN is expected to make a ROI - no one disputes that. The dispute comes in to play about how much of a ROI is acceptable.

      Telstra's NBN ROI is not just not acceptable - it's ridiculous. Why should I support a company who has it's only interest in shareholders and not its customers? You forget, Sydney, that most Telstra customers are shareholders, so Telstra rips off its shareholders to pay them a nice dividend... what is the point? If you had cheaper internet access you would get a smaller dividend, but you would still be in front.

      If Telstra lower their ridiculous ROI and are structurally separated then I will support them 100%. If that doesn't happen then I will support any other company who wants to build it - whether they are Australian or not is irrelevant.

      Telstra may be an Australian company but their interests are not the Australian consumer. You may point out that Optus have links with Singapore - big deal. If they can build the network (which they can) and provide access at a cheaper rate, then I'm all for it.

    2. TKO to SJT. Sydney Lawrence -- 10/07/08

      James after careful consideration and deliberation on the individual arguments and cross sectional debate between your good self and the knowledgeable SJT I do consider SJT has the most logical , honest and beneficial answer for all Australians.

    3. Thanks Sydney James Bell -- 10/07/08

      Thank you Sydney for your honesty. I'm sure a lot of thought went into this difficult decision you've come to; however I certainly appreciate you letting me know.

    4. Love your comments Carlos -- 10/07/08

      "Why should I support a company who has it's only interest in shareholders and not its customers?"

      That is every single public company in the country.

      When was the last time you deposited $1 in the bank and earn 1% interest only to borrow $1 to pay 9%?

      How about filling up your petrol tank? it was under $1 less then 3 years ago.

      Maybe some milk & bread from your local retailer? almost double the price it was 2 years ago

      Possibly a trip down the highway? sorry there is a toll and you need to pay ... it goes up every year but there is no increase in the number of lanes.

      "If Telstra lower their ridiculous ROI and are structurally separated then I will support them 100%"

      YEAH SURE!!!

      You will probably start saying their share price is so low and their returns are so bad that you couldn't see a reason why you would want to invest in them or trust that they will still be around in 5 years.

    5. internet access Davo -- 11/07/08

      Carlos, the discussion is about the cost of internet access. In other countries, this price continues to drop whilst the speeds continue to increase. The price of technology across the board continues to fall whilst performance continues to increase. Telsta is indicating that it will substantially increase pricing for an increase in performance. This is at odds with the rest of the world and all other technology.

    6. Re: internet access SJT -- 11/07/08

      Davo, this topic isn't about cost; it's about structural separation of Telstra. Please reread the article! Imho, if we want to go off topic, we firstly need to talk about who can get it built, how long it will take and ensure not 1c more is handed to whoever wins. Then we should talk about costs.

      But it is you guys who keep bringing up costs, but then refusing to listen, or only hearing what you want to hear, in relation to these costs! TERRiA have said they'll be cheaper initially, so fair enough! But? Once again info for you to dismiss: -

      As I outlined above (9/7) - Age 10/6, "Telstra's broadband prices could only rise if inflation was above the Reserve Bank's target peak of 3%. In short, IF TELSTRA BUILT THE NETWORK AND DID NOT GET AS MANY CUSTOMERS AS IT FORECAST, THE COST WOULD BE BORNE BY THE COMPANY AND ITS SHAREHOLDERS. But if demand on a Terria-owned network was below estimates - and therefore not enough revenue firstly to cover costs and the return on investment - (TERRiA's) PRICES WOULD RISE IN THE NEXT FOUR YEARS TO MAKE UP THE SHORTFALL"... So if clientele is well below what is forecast, the price could double, triple, quadruple, who knows, "to make up the shortfall"!

      Tim Smeallie of Citi - Telecoms research, suggests Telstra will be more expensive "upfront" but also "caveat-light"... In other words, Telstra are actually telling us upfront, how much it will cost us, whereas TERRiA are only telling us how much they will charge initially (less than Telstra of course - you know, dangle the carrot to get the foot in the door) but after that, all bets are off!

      Then you want to compare us to the rest of the world. I have seen many mention the UK, well... let's at least be realistic? The UK is 245,000 km2 (about the same as VIC) and has some 60m people. Australia is some 7,700,000 km2 with only 21m people. As such pure land mass + cost of construction + small population, unfortunately = more expense for us the consumer, in comparison to almost anywhere else, regardless of who builds the NBN! Surely that is commonsense?

    7. Once again Carlos -- 11/07/08

      Fact wins over rhetoric

      GREAT COMMENT SJT!!!

  6. Hmm, interesting debate! Rex Alfie Lee -- 05/08/08

    The problem arises in all this as to what is best for the Australian market. I believe I have never heard a positive thing stated about Telstra's service by anyone who is Australian that doesn't have some interest (read share holdings) in this scummy organisation.

    Their service is pathetic, expensive & has a strangle-hold on broadband provision.

    It is clear that whilst the separation of Telstra may be a complicated one, it needs to be done. We are living as a third-world country because of Telstra's attitude of providing mediocre & expensive service. Living in Tasmania we have 2 fibre-optic lines, both controlled by the big T but one is not in operation. It costs more to provide an ADSL2 service from the mainland than it does to the USA. So, consequently the lesser sized providers will not run ADSL2 in Tasmania.

    Whilst not an original Tasmanian & also not wanting to remain here in the long term I am not beholden to this state alone but I recognise the injustice. This injustice is also served in many of the outer country areas. My origins are in Broken Hill, another place that has suffered in the past at Telstra's management decisions.

    Telstra needs to be broken up & perhaps the shareholders provided with some recompense for their loss even though I couldn't care less about them. While they do not recognise Telstra's bastardry then screw them.

    Split Telstra immediately. Put that mongrel Sol (sun-shines-out-my-butt) Trujillo in gaol along with the rest of the Telstra board & give Telstra back to the Government to run.

    It may not be efficient but at least it will provide a service, unlike the scumbags running the business at present.

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